Jeffrey Wasserstrom: China, Xi Jinping, Trade War, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Mao | Lex Fridman Podcast #466

I'm Chinese, grew up in China between age 0-26 and lived in the US between age 26-40. I've been a long time fan of Lex and have watched more than 200 episodes of this podcast. Although Lex tries to hear all voices and read all books, when it comes to China, I do think he naturally focuses on the 5% aspects of China that western propaganda typically focus on, and ignore the 95% of everything else of China that are non political. I totally understand it too, because the language barrier is so huge that it's hard to get any insights except what the western media have historically focused on. Even this very knowledgeable guest doesn't know much about daily life of Chinese people (he does know a lot of history, no doubt). By listening to their conversation, I feel they both have read a lot, are very knowledgeable, yet still know very little. However, this episode is probably already fascinating enough for most of Lex's audience, it's only me who suffer from already knowing too much, especially the facts that I hope were mentioned but weren't.

You should go to China and interview someone there on this topic

The biggest misunderstanding of China from the West is the tendency to oversimplify—a 6000 year-old history and 1.4 billion unique individuals get reduced to some imaginary top-down control by the CPC, like someone flicking a light switch. What’s often overlooked is that, unlike other Asian countries, China is the only one that has embedded Western ideologies and even foreign thinkers into its Constitution—superficially abandoning its own culture and philosophy in the COC charter and the Constitution. That alone shows how flexible and pragmatic the CPC is. For a party that started with around 50 founding members 1921 to grow into a 90-million-strong organisation running a global superpower—honestly, that should be in business textbooks as a case study in successful entrepreneurship. They must have done a lot of things right. The way China is governed today follows a traditional Chinese model: centralised control, a strict hierarchy, and a rigorous elite selection process for officials. The government acts with a kind of parental responsibility toward the people. That’s why the CPC isn’t really a “communist party” in the traditional sense—it just wears the badge. In practice, it’s more like a modern version of ancient Chinese governance, infused with some Western elements and a capitalist economy. That’s why it works so well in managing such a huge and complex country—and why it actually enjoys a lot of public support. As for the dissidents—some of them push simplistic Western values that don’t really fit the context, and others seem more like opportunists than principled critics. Many just couldn’t get what they wanted, and now wear the label of “dissident.” Their behaviour abroad over the past few years often reflects ignorance and a questionable moral compass.

The century of humiliation is not just a "feeling" espoused by chinese leaders. Im a Chinese American born & raised in the USA, and even people like me understand that the racism in the USA towards Chinese people like me originates from that era. It's about how we are viewed in the world. The emasculation of Asian men in general originates itself from that time period.

As a Chinese who have been living in the mainland for 30plus years, I can say this is one of the best interpretation and analysis about China I've seen, especially modern China part. Regarding censorship, I can provide something he didnt mentioned. The standard is not fixed, it changes depending on current public opinion. The authorities will take into account the real-time trend of discussions. Internet police monitor network traffic, and once a topic or post is discussed or shared beyond a certain threshold, it will be manually reviewed or intervened, even if the original news wasn’t politically sensitive or only contained subtle political implications.

It would be amazing to see you visit China one day — to walk the streets, meet the people, and experience life firsthand. There's so much more beyond the big geopolitical narratives — the everyday stories, the warmth of communities, the rhythm of daily life. I believe that kind of human connection can be incredibly eye-opening. For many viewers outside China, seeing these real, lived experiences helps break down barriers and reveals just how much common ground we all share. It's through that shared humanity that we can foster deeper understanding and work together on the challenges that unite us. 😊

Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep466-sa See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. 0:00 - Introduction 0:16 - Xi Jinping and Mao Zedong 3:45 - Confucius 11:15 - Education 19:21 - Tiananmen Square 30:36 - Tank Man 40:36 - Censorship 1:16:33 - Xi Jinping 1:34:41 - Donald Trump 1:38:34 - Trade war 1:51:23 - Taiwan 2:01:36 - Protests in Hong Kong 2:33:55 - Mao Zedong 2:55:36 - Future of China *Transcript:* https://lexfridman.com/jeffrey-wasserstrom-transcript *CONTACT LEX:* *Feedback* - give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey *AMA* - submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama *Hiring* - join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring *Other* - other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact *EPISODE LINKS:* Jeffrey Wasserstrom's Books: China in the 21st Century: https://amzn.to/3GnayXT Vigil: Hong Kong on the Brink: https://amzn.to/4jmxWmT Oxford History of Modern China: https://amzn.to/3RAJ9nI The Milk Tea Alliance: https://amzn.to/42DLapH *SPONSORS:* To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: *Oracle:* Cloud infrastructure. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/oracle-ep466-sa *Tax Network USA:* Full-service tax firm. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/tax_network_usa-ep466-sa *Shopify:* Sell stuff online. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/shopify-ep466-sa *LMNT:* Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-ep466-sa *AG1:* All-in-one daily nutrition drink. Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/ag1-ep466-sa

As a HongKonger who has been through the huge political wave back then as a teenager, and now moved to the UK because of that. I am truly glad and moved that Lex and Jeffrey bring our story on the table and discussed what we have experienced. You have been the best podcast among all. Your character, passion, curiosity, the way of thinking, and the love you are spreading is what I admire from the bottom of my heart, and have been empowering me as I grow up, and this only let me love you more. Thank you very much!

Thank you Lex from Hong Kong!

4:00 what’s immediately wrong here is that it’s not that Mao likes chaos and Xi likes order. It’s just that in order for Mao to cease back the power lost he had to create chaos; for Xi to maintain power he had to put everyone under tight control. The mean to get power is different but it doesn’t mean they won’t do the same things under the same circumstances.