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Joe Rogan Experience #2419 - John Lisle

2025-11-27 People & Blogs
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Unpacking MKULTRA: CIA Mind Control, Precursor Programs, and the Crisis of Government Oversight

Investigate the historical foundation of CIA mind control research, tracing psychiatric torture techniques from the OSS to the dark legacy of MKULTRA architects like Sydney Gottlieb and Euan Cameron.

Short Summary

  • Discover how WWII era OSS drug experiments directly informed Cold War-era CIA programs under Sidney Gottlieb.
  • Examine radical psychological manipulation tactics, including "Psychic Driving," designed to erase and rebuild personalities.
  • Analyze the systemic failures of accountability, where perpetrators faced negligible consequences despite documented abuse and illegal actions.
  • Understand the "Vicious Cycle of Secrecy" that allows intelligence agencies to operate outside democratic checks and balances.

This discussion with historian John Lisle reveals the deep roots of psychological experimentation within U.S. intelligence. Lisle details the transition from Stanley Levelvel’s WWII "dirty tricks" to MKULTRA’s drug trials, providing context on how a lack of congressional oversight fostered decades of unethical and illegal activities against citizens.

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Description

John Lisle has a Ph.D. in history from the University of Texas, where he is now a professor of the history of science. His two books on the intelligence community are "The Dirty Tricks Department" and "Project Mind Control: Sidney Gottlieb, the CIA, and the Tragedy of MKULTRA." https://www.johnlislehistorian.com https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250338747/projectmindcontrol/ Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Visible. Live in the know. Join today at https://www.visible.com/rogan Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN •GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit https://gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY).Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit https://ccpg.org (CT), or visit https://www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). Pass-thru of per wager tax may apply in IL. 1 per new customer. Must register new account to receive reward Token. Must select Token BEFORE placing min. $5 bet to receive $200 in Bonus Bets if your bet wins. Min. -500 odds req. Token and Bonus Bets are single-use and non-withdrawable. Token expires 1/11/26. Bonus Bets expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: https://sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 1/4/26 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK.

Top Comments (10)

@Nemesis_Zer0 2025-11-27

Gonna play this over my speaker system once the family arrives so we can all have an uncomfortable Thanksgiving together

1.1k 44 replies
@msthec1 2025-11-27

The CIA, the most corrupt and powerful organization that no one voted for...over throwing foreign governments and assassinating an American president and running experiments on the american people since the 1940s

1.0k 124 replies
@Williamharrington1866 2025-11-27

Thanks for putting this out for all those alone on thanksgiving

292 20 replies
@DrewKane 2025-11-27

I'm not even 5 minutes into this episode and the guest's excitement about the subject matter is already keeping me glued to the screen.

218 5 replies
@HarveyTaylor-s8b 2025-11-28

Happy Thanksgiving to all Americans have a good day my friends From London, England 🎉

60 3 replies
@RobbieWight 2025-11-29

I have never enjoyed a podcast more than this one. The enthusiasm and passion he feels about his field of study is inspiring. I feel a few rabbit holes are about to be entered soon!

27 1 replies
@turntableslave 2025-11-27

Aldous Huxley was way ahead of his tie with hypnopaedic teaching (psychic driving) of babies in utero in Brave New World. Wild.

16
@RobotAutopsy 2025-11-28

Would have been funny to have Kurt Metzger there too trying to stay quiet the whole time

11
@Panache918 2025-11-30

I couldn’t help getting swept up in John’s excitement as he talked about his research. I love how he always starts low and slow, then gradually builds—voice rising, words tumbling faster and faster—as he describes his findings. No need for the gym today; my heart just ran a full marathon. It’s genuinely inspiring to watch someone so completely in love with what they do.

8
@gaddisonmail 2025-11-28

Ewen Cameron sounded like "You 'n Cameron". I was imagining Joe and someone named Cameron performing terrible experiments on people when I went back to listening to the podcast for a confusing minute. LOL

8

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