How Mattering Drives Spiritual Life | Rebecca Goldstein

Rebecca Goldstein argues that religious belief, transcendence, and even cult behavior can often be understood through the human need to matter. Do you think the drive for significance is fundamental to spiritual life — or does religion point to something deeper beyond human psychology?

Another fascinating conversation, I'd love to take psychedelics to try and and get closer to truth but I know there are too many demons in my mind and subconscious and would no doubt be an horrific experience, and I'm too cowardly to do it!

(5:42) "Tortured attempts"? But Martin Luther's solution to the problem of Anfechtungen was to introduce two forms of mattering, there's alien mattering, and there's proper mattering, except only the alien mattering is placed under divine judgement (And Dr. Goldstein only appears to have one mattering instinct)

Ok. Robert hasn't had a religious experience, as stated by him in this video. How about just beginning with what it is that you are experiencing first of all – a serious inquiry. This question matters because, as we know, since we were children over time when growing up, our awareness becomes greater and greater. Trial and error: we learn, we grow, we understand, we see. Where does this expanded awareness end, or rather, where did it even begin? What is that that keeps reifying Robert so he stands firm by saying that he hasn't ever had a "religious" experience? Isn't the visible sight of and recognition of the sun a kind of experience? When "religious" is emphasized, concerning an experience, what does this distinguishment from that of an ordinary experience imply? A mystery surely only remains a mystery to he who doesn't know. I follow a pastor here on youtube. Pastor Ted says religion simply implies a relinking to the divine. I choose to adopt this definition. It's simple. Although i don't consider myself religious, others do. People consider hinduism a religion, the hindus will reject this. Who is it or what is it that wants to distinguish a human experience from a religious experience? Often anything "religious" intimates mystery and strange beliefs that even those who believe in religous dogma, they themselves do not understand – so, stay away from anything religous because it's creepy and makes one uncomfortable. Those who are religious are simply nuts. Like anything in life, there are many boxers who train, but only so many are world class. There are many prolific authors, but only a very small percentage are actually worth reading. In mysticism mountain represents consciousness, and every once in a long while there is a special spirit-soul sent to aid in mankind but sometimes they go missing or are rejected and exiled. Relgion and the religious are no different. You can't expect everybody to be world-class. Neither can you expect a 6 year old to reach the summit of K2. Nor can you expect a 7 year old to win a motogp event. But in time, maybe. How persistent is their drive, how resilient are they? Conviction. There's Buddha consciousness. KRSNA or Christ consciousness. There's higher consciousness. Noesis – knowledge of the divine. Gnosis – intuition, mystical(inner) experience, first hand experience. Sorry to burst your stupor, but you're in the RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE right now whether you want to admit it or not. Being born, realizing the God-given intellect, recollection, realization, reason & logic, beauty & art... energy, universal law and principle, etc. All technically "religous".. But just wait a moment... don't allow others to define for you what is a genuine spiritual(or metaphysical) and inner, therefore intimate, experience. Don't be afraid of it because your friends and contemporaries think it's silly. They suck anyways. We all have the potential for greatness as the knowledge for the first time for mankind is at the tips of our fingers. People have paid dearly for what we take for granted today and on many fronts. What i've come to reckon is that human psyche, science, metaphysics, laws, reason, logic, the stars sun and moon, truth, justice, meaning, essence, nature, field theory, theosis, gnosis, theurgy, theology, philosophy, art, music, poetry, physics, math & arithmetics, life, knowledge, are all of one same system. There is truly ONE dimension. These ancient doctrines & scriptures are not in anyway indifferent to science or physics, nor biased concerning some mystical experience. Long as they appear different, partial, silly, etc. it's not them, rather it's one who's not yet receptive for the truth. All my life and studies, research and experience, i think can be all summed up as the exploration of the human psyche. Currently it's platonics and vedic metaphysics for me, i.e., the sacred sciences, too the natural sciences, and scriptures like torah, kjv, quran. The scientific stance on scriptures has nothing to do with belief in any of them, but strictly what does it mean, i.e., what do they scriptures entail, and there after once discovered or revealed, one can choose, if it makes since for them, to adopt the knowledge or not. It's what i've done, and i learned a lot. Some pride themselves in their stances who proclaim metaphysics and physics are contrary, and too, theology and science. People arguing that only the natural phenomena is real and no supernatural — that's literally saying that only illuminations is, that there is no light. If one is really about Truth and Wisdom, none of the distinctions matter at all. Those are all trite existentia quarrels of bullshit. Perception and perspective is imperative, but to have never awakened to the synthesis is a sign of a wasted life.

Legacy.

I think we can examine this issue using the example of overcoming the all-consuming fear that occupies a deep place in human life. One can practice a more or less fearless behavior through knowledge and wisdom, or through the decision to let go of fear, or through complete carelessness and forgetfulness (psychedelics, alcohol, drugs, etc.). It seems to me that recognizing one's own significance is only one and very rare way of actively practicing spiritual life. People most often overcome their fears and limitations under the influence of circumstances, illness, or other tragic events and suffering.

Our sense of self, the feeling that we are unique and a lifetime of experience and learning makes us need to feel that all doesn't disappear when we die. We all have an inner sense that there is more. Even the staunchest atheist has that inner feeling. Even if they spend their lives trying to deny it. None of this proves there is more but the absence of proof is not proof there is nothing.

Thats certainly a part of it. Humans also desire certainty and a community. Many peoole lime to ne told what to do and what to believe.

I used to be a huge fan of RG. Read all of her books. But her descent into Trump Derangement Syndrome exposed her inability to *actually* think critically about the world. She represents the worst of Liberal elite culture — along with new partner Steven Pinker. Shallow. Arrogant. Condescending. Ignorant of the real life of most people, having been sheltered as an “intellectual.”

Apart from the snide comments just made. I would say that the force to continually existing unless prevented from doing so by external circumstances applies to everything in reality. What counts as persisting differs depending on the type of thing that it is. And for humans, the mattering instinct will be an essential part of our desire to persist. Which seems pretty Spinozostic to me. He is a naturalist, but the mattering instinct isn't a mere product of mechanical evolution. Although the way the matter instinct manifests in human beings may be to a certain extent conditioned by evolution, even though that force for continued existence is native to everything as is appropriate for that type of thing.