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The Science Of Revenge, with James Kimmel

2025-07-05 Science & Technology
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StarTalk
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Has humanity evolved to seek out revenge? Neil deGrasse Tyson, Chuck Nice, and Gary O’Reilly break down the neuroscience behind revenge-seeking, what motivates violence, and how science can help stop it with James Kimmel, Jr., lawyer, lecturer in psychiatry at Yale School of Medicine, and author of The Science of Revenge. We explore new research that frames compulsive revenge-seeking. James opens up about his traumatic experience as a bullied teen that nearly drove him to kill. What stopped him? And how did that moment drive him to study revenge? What does the brain look like on revenge? Learn how revenge taps into pathways in the brain used for pain, pleasure, and reward. Why is revenge so pleasurable, even when it’s only imagined? Could our craving for revenge be strong enough to override our conscience? We examine the role of the prefrontal cortex, explore why some people act out violently while others don’t. Is there a biological basis for violent crime? Could these compulsive frameworks and anti-craving medications be used to prevent violence before it happens? And how do social connections affect recovery from revenge addiction? As corny as it sounds, we learn how forgiveness has an actual impact on the brain. Can imagining forgiveness really deactivate pain circuits in the brain? Why do so many people misunderstand forgiveness as something you give to others, rather than something that heals yourself? From FMRI scans to courtroom ethics, from stop-the-steal conspiracies to school shootings: is American society addicted to revenge? How do media, social networks, and politics inflame that addiction? And what happens when entire nations pursue revenge? By the end, we return to the core question: if revenge is neurologically rewarding, how do we stop people from pursuing it? Is prevention possible? What signs can we look for before it's too late? And could forgiveness be the ultimate tool for changing not only our brains, but our culture? Thanks to our Patrons Daniel D., Wendi Su, Jim, Patrick Johnson, Lyleblakeo, Anabel del Val, Alex P, Harry Peters jr, Scott Syme, Katie Littman, Jarrett Rice, James, Mindy Graulich, Bart, John Dragicevich, Michelle Gerez, Renee A Chen, Sarthak Misra, Drew and Bobbi Monks, Nina Kattwinkel, Emir Tenic, Tyler Kunkel, Matt Baldwin, jscribble, Tore Aslaksen, Melina Morgan, kenneth cooke, Dale Ireen Goldstein, Christopher Arnold, Etienne moolman, Daniel S. Hall, Quillan, Jeff Whitacre, Jeremy Schmidt, Brian Reed, Frank, Micheal Trager, Irene, Robert Tillinghast, HeWhoQueries, Samantha, Laura knight lucas, Amagerikaner, Webb Peterson, Jeramiah Keele, Joe Quintanilla, kent simon, Tim Albertson, Fallon Cohen, John Terranova, Phinphan77, yocheved Devehcoy, Lasha Kanchaveli, and Nalini Martin for supporting us this week. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction: James Kimmel Jr. 05:00 - James’s Close Call with Revenge Seeking 14:12 - Justice vs. Revenge 16:37 - What Does The Brain Look Like on Revenge? 20:45 - Why Do Some People Go For Extreme Revenge? 26:00 - Addiction Treatment for Revenge 30:19 - Revenge as Public Health Issue 33:30 - Psychopath vs. Revenge Seeker 34:42 - The Powerful Science of Forgiveness 46:02 - Is Society Addicted to Revenge? 54:24 - How We Evolved Revenge 56:12 - Minority Report & Predicting Violence 59:30 - Scientific Support for Ancient Teachings Check out our second channel, @StarTalkPlus Get the NEW StarTalk book, 'To Infinity and Beyond: A Journey of Cosmic Discovery' on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3PL0NFn Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/startalkradio FOLLOW or SUBSCRIBE to StarTalk: Twitter: http://twitter.com/startalkradio Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/StarTalk Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/startalk About StarTalk: Science meets pop culture on StarTalk! Astrophysicist & Hayden Planetarium director Neil deGrasse Tyson, his comic co-hosts, guest celebrities & scientists discuss astronomy, physics, and everything else about life in the universe. Keep Looking Up! #StarTalk #NeildeGrasseTyson

Top Comments (10)

@FirestormX9 2025-07-05

Sometimes i feel like the main lore of StarTalk is Chuck's evolution.

712 34 replies
@zmfndne 2025-07-05

i love when startalk expands to other fields of sciences it makes us always learn something new.

405 4 replies
@kevingalligan8132 2025-07-11

CHUCK! For a guy who is constantly trying to stay above water in discussions with experts in astrophysics and quantum physics you have developed interview superpowers. I never want u to leave Startalk but if you ever get a side gig im there with you. The way you give insight without overwhelming the guest is magical. You got big brain bro! Don’t ever feel the need to apologize to Neil or anyone else for it.

384 11 replies
@sarahleon7441 2025-07-05

I appreciate Neil allowing the guest to talk. We are always growing and learning. I love this podcast so much!

290 7 replies
@corncobjohnsonreal 2025-07-05

This is a great episode. Our guest, James, has said some of the most intriguing things on StarTalk, Chuck Nice was hitting nothing but home runs, and Neil barely interrupted anyone

239 4 replies
@mikesaltman 2025-07-09

As a survivor of child abuse this explains a lot about my thought process and what my therapist labeled as "homicidal ideation" but never once did any of them speak with me about the revenge addiction and reward process involved with that thinking. Really years of therapy wasn't very helpful and what helped didn't come from therapy but it came from me deciding to forgive myself and forgive the disgusting individual who hurt me. I stopped fantasizing about revenge and he eventually died of heart failure. I still get angry if I think about it too much but I don't dwell on it and it's short lived.

116 9 replies
@Im_Monte 2025-07-05

Give Chuck his flowers for teaching them Dopaminergic! 19:48

91 2 replies
@PatrickSherback 2025-07-27

BEST EPISODE EVER! Growing up in a dysfunctional violent family I have always wanted my vengeance. Listening to Jame's experience wanting revenge for the people killing his dog and blowing up his mailbox; the number of times I wanted to reciprocate the treatment - or worse- I have been subjected to, only to realize that I would become something worse than I am now has always stopped me. More than 50 years after the abuse started, I dismembered a critical link to my abuse by vowing to never put myself in the proximity of my family and their relationships ever again. Still wanting my vengeance has kept me in cyclic turmoil. Constantly searching for tools to manage or come to terms with my learned behaviour and PTSD or grief has been fruitless. After watching this episode, I am now pursuing the act of forgiveness with determination. I accept this is a new journey on a new path that doesn't bring revenge/violence and will keep me out of prison LOL. THANK YOU.

55 3 replies
@CDCRilene 2025-07-14

I am a retired addiction counselor and taught anger management. This is amazing and hope people listen

37
@GordonFreemayne 2025-12-02

Yo.. that "how I became a lawyer" is the greatest villain origin story I've ever heard.

9

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