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The MAGA Machine Can't Save Trump From Epstein (w/ David Frum) | The Bulwark Podcast

2025-11-14 News & Politics
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The Bulwark
The Bulwark
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Trump's Shifting Defenses, Political Retribution, and the Roots of Hate

Analyze how Trump’s uncharacteristic guilt over Epstein exposes internal fractures, contrast this with systematic political retribution being deployed by allies, and explore the deep paranoia fueling modern antisemitism debates.

Short Summary

  • Trump broke his standard non-apology pattern by obsessing over the Epstein story, signaling genuine vulnerability or crisis mismanagement.
  • Allies are engaging in unprecedented government cleanup, using state power (DOJ/Fannie Mae) for personal settlements and political payback.
  • Speakers differentiate between contempt-based hate and paranoia-based antisemitism, discussing its corrosive role across the political spectrum.
  • The discussion covered the futility of interdicting supply (like drug boats) versus addressing consumer demand, citing the Venezuela refugee crisis as a policy failure example.

This conversation details the political fallout surrounding the Jeffrey Epstein scandal, particularly candidate Trump’s reaction. Hosts Tim Miller and David Frum dissect Trump’s unusual behavior—acting shamefaced—which suggests the issue is severe. They pivot to discussing systemic corruption, evidenced by reports of taxpayers potentially settling multi-million dollar lawsuits for Trump appointees like Michael Flynn. Furthermore, Frum offers a deep analysis of antisemitism as a form of paranoia, noting how it contaminates political discourse across the spectrum, especially when tied to foreign policy crises like Venezuela.

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Description

Our commander-in-chief and breaker of mores can only muster the energy to beg Republicans to stop talking about Epstein. Where is the blustery guy who proudly declared he paid no taxes and that he could shoot anyone on 5th avenue? Because of the lame duck smell he's giving off—and the economic problems Trump himself brought on—he's not getting the support he needs from the outer MAGA media world that's obsessed with Epstein. Meanwhile, he's getting ready to have taxpayers pay off his cronies for trying to help steal the 2020 election. Plus, the four kinds of corruption in the Trump administration, the Caribbean boat bombings have driven down the price of cocaine, and the origins and modern flowering of antisemitism on the left and right. David Frum joins Tim Miller for the weekend pod. Show Notes: - David's recent episode on the military buildup off the coast of Venezuela: https://www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/2025/11/the-david-frum-show-quico-toro-venzuela/684831/?gift=AO0MhSsTDaHgiP_RxFGfB1SfWx5ivPCmB3e7I3i1ZGE&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share - David's interview with Sarah this week: https://www.theatlantic.com/podcasts/2025/11/the-david-frum-show-sarah-longwell-2025-elections/684900/?gift=AO0MhSsTDaHgiP_RxFGfB3ThHHYG0kBCPvKXm9hVYcg&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share - Tim's playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0dApY6YT48kTh6j9xFDQch - If you believe democracy requires the kind of trust that is engendered through honest searching, and through the great books that built our civilization, become a Johnnie by visiting https://www.sjc.edu Take our quick survey and help us make The Bulwark even better. https://bit.ly/bulwarkvideo Become a Bulwark Youtube Plus Member here - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG4Hp1KbGw4e02N7FpPXDgQ/join

Top Comments (10)

@kathym7495 2025-11-14

Megyn Kelly is disgusting beyond words.... I was 7 when I was raped. It would not have mattered if I were 17, or 27...I am 71 today. It is still horrific. 🤬

991 55 replies
@juliarosenquist7573 2025-11-14

I want Nuremberg trials for this administration.

548 19 replies
@agenttattletale2 2025-11-15

David Frum is flat-out wrong on his takes re: Zohran and Israel. It is not antisemitic to call a genocide a genocide, and there is no need to "make amends" with Bibi/Israel as a nation state until they too clean house.

475 25 replies
@sunnyowens626 2025-11-14

First & foremost "Children Can not Give Consent"" let that sink in! That's the bottom line reality!!

474 11 replies
@NoSacredCowFla 2025-11-14

I can't see JD Vance without hearing the South Park version.

337 18 replies
@katep3924 2025-11-15

He is the mayor of NY - not doing international relations for the USA. Could we lay off the anti-Zohran rhetoric? I am exhausted by the useless pearl-clutching.

332 19 replies
@glennmorgan4197 2025-11-14

19:08 So they're just openly stealing from the public coffers? There's NEVER BEEN A MORE CORRUPT POLITICAL PARTY! 💯😡🤬

286 10 replies
@gregwickham9841 2025-11-14

He looks guilty because he IS guilty

260 3 replies
@khangs 2025-11-15

My favourite writers and thinkers are largely Jewish, David Frum being one of them. My whole life I was an ardent supporter of Israel and it's cause. I'm not an anti-Zionist, and I'm definitely not anti-Semitic, but I am anti the way Israel handled their response to Oct 7th. I don't have tiktok, and I don't get my news from social media. I get all my news from the traditional sources. And I watched clips on the evening news of injured and dying children crying out in pain, and I saw mother's crying and pleading for basic necessities like food and shelter and safety for their children. It is damn near impossible not to be affected by those pictures. And yet, the level of empathy--or lack thereof--I saw coming from Israeli government officials, and supporters of Israel in America was unsettling to say the least. That is what troubled me the most. Seeing just how little these people seemed to care, if at all. And I get it, Oct 7th was horrific. But 70,000 dead compared to a little over 1000 felt like...overkill? No pun intended. Witnessing the degree of violence and bloodshed supporters of Israel were willing to accept was just disorienting to me. So, yea, I don't know. That's just my two cents. A little empathy would have gone a long way Lastly, if I may add, that last bit where you guys spoke about Zohran is a perfect encapsulation of the problem. Look at how difficult it was for even you, Tim, to broach this topic, despite how delicately you went about it, and how intransigent and unwavering Frum was in his conviction regarding the danger of Zohran's views in relation to Israel. The guy softens his stance and actively does outreach to the Jewish community, and even that is seen as a cynical ploy on his part, apparently to mislead people about what he truly believes. If he doesn't do that outreach, then it's "look at how dangerous this man is, ignoring a large segment of the Jewish population in NY and refusing to allay whatever fears they may harbor." It's just damn near impossible to have a normal, constructive dialogue about this topic

138 11 replies
@catherinecuneo 2025-11-15

Thank you Tim for the pushback against the proposition that anti-Israel policies as executed now = antisemitism. There are more than a few people who can separate these.

132 4 replies

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