The Science That Can End The AI Consciousness Debate | Integrated Information Theory Explained

How is it possible that the cerebellum, which contains roughly 80% of all the neurons in the human brain, can be severely damaged, or even absent, without abolishing consciousness? In this conversation, Jeremiah Hendren, a member of the Integrated Information Theory (IIT) Lab and long-term collaborator of IIT founder Giulio Tononi, joins Hans Busstra to unpack Integrated Information Theory (IIT), a theory that answers this fascinating neuroscience mystery. A comprehensive knowledge base and resource for learning IIT: https://www.iit.wiki A list of essential IIT scientific papers: https://www.iit.wiki/papers The lab of Giulio Tononi, the main developer of IIT: https://centerforsleepandconsciousness.psychiatry.wisc.edu 0:00 Introduction 3:33 Can IIT give us a consciousness test? 9:07 Integration and differentiation of consciousness, compared to a ZIP file 12:42 What does “integration” mean in integrated information theory? 15:00 Computational and “Skinner box” theories of consciousness vs IIT 18:46 Francis Crick’s work 21:46 Why LLMs and computers can’t be conscious according to IIT 30:21 How to measure phi 34:07 As intelligence goes up, consciousness goes up as well 44:49 When neurons are inactive but not inactivated 58:18 Unfolded cause–effect structures 1:00:49 Realism in IIT terms 1:08:56 The intrinsic perspective of neurons 1:13:43 Trying to understand the unfolded cause–effect structure 1:15:56 On the metaphysical implications of IIT 1:21:44 Consciousness beyond brains 1:28:09 Are AIs neuromorphic or not? 1:29:32 Measuring integration mathematically 1:34:00 Drawing the exact boundary of a conscious entity 1:35:44 Isn’t IIT too brain-focused? 1:44:05 Larger configurations of consciousness: group minds and hive minds 1:46:54 Mystical-type experiences and IIT Copyright © 2026 Essentia Foundation. All rights on interview content reserved.